Mr Palmer? DTV, home Antenna and stations antennas.

[Buggyman]

Long time no chat Mr Palmer. I hope all is well on your end.
I seen your post on cameras and I told Duh Boss Dr Dan that my Daughter works with security cameras and is "training" in that field as a side interest source of income.

Now back to what this post is all about. I know you work around Antennas a lot.
OK, I'm cheap and broke. When that happens I make do with what I can.
So read what I've done and help explain what I can do.
And yes I could just get an antenna for the tv and be done with it.
But that isn't possible right now.

What I did was used an old CB antenna on a magnet base for a tv antenna.
We have two DTV converter boxes we got back during the change over to Digital signal.
I spliced the cable and connected a short length of RF cable. ground to ground and current wire to the antenna itself.
It worked.
I did find that the higher it was the better reception it got. Having a magnetic base I was able to mount it on top of my gazebo which was about 10 feet up. It was vertical just like a CB antenna goes.

Then I heard about "Directional" and "Non directional" receptions and the the channels each can only get.
OK... I can remember the old rabbit ear antennas  :muttley:
Right now my home made antenna is in the attic where I can connect it to any RF cable going to certain rooms.
I had it standing vertical and it did fine.
Then I laid it horizontal pointed east to see it that helped.
It seem to done better even though I don't have a signal meter.

The last part is this.
Here in my city, all the TV and Radio Antenna towers are in mostly one location. They are all
in an array about 15 miles due east of my house.
We are on flat land down here and no tower building between me and the antennas either.
If I can capture, strengthening those signals then I'm good.

While the CB antenna bare metal isn't designed for what I'm using it for. It does work.
The question is. Do I mount it vertical? or horizontal to get the most of both.
And is there any modification I can add to the antenna that might help? like bat wing type wires?
I recall a subject on the Board some years back about using Pringle cans for some device to improve it's signal.
I want to try to do the same thing.

Sooooooo.. what say you guys? Anyone up to the challenge?  :bigsmile:

Thanks!
Buggy 'D

[chpalmer]

Hi Buggy!  Been nuts here...

TV antenna's are usually horizontally polarized. But more important these days since the  digital transition is which frequencies the stations are now on...

My glasses are missing right now but Ill take a closer look through this when I find them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_broadcast_television_frequencies -   But if you look around you may find what it.

The reason frequency is important is antenna length is directionally proportionate to said frequency. And tv is 75 ohm while comm radio gear is 50 ohm impedance at the antenna port.

The transition to  digital didn't do the viewers any favors. Digital transitions of any kind in the RF world generally mean smaller coverage areas. Cellular companies that were analog lost up to about 10 times their coverage per cell site when they switched to digital.

[Buggyman]

Thanks for responding Mr Palmer, This isn't urgent so  take your time.

Hi Buggy!  Been nuts here...

My glasses are missing right now but Ill take a closer look through this when I find them...

You're lucky, I can barely see WITH my glasses on.  :muttley:

I have a list I got off the DTV converter of the channels. But they don't show frequencies, just channels ID such as 4 dot whatever.
I actually pick up local channels that none of the cable providers offer on cable. But I know they are only required to offer the Old analog channels. 
But I do understand frequencies bandwidth from back in the Ham radio days.
You used the word "proportional" which tells me more than one of equal lengths or equal distance between the two.
My current antenna as a CB exposed wire antenna and it's wired like battery. One is  negative ground and one is hot.
I think it's only about 30 inches long.

So as of this point, without modifying the antenna. I do need to change the angle I have it from Pointing the direction of to being horizontal and facing perpendicular to the direction the array of antennas are.
Which explains why they have those multiples vertical tips on them.
While not the best way to do it. It's probably the best I can do for now.  :bigsmile:
This is a very interesting subject. 


Thanks!
Buggy 
 

[chpalmer]

Just found a place to locate some channel information... 

http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/    Just enter your zip code or one close to you...

http://listings2go.tvguide.com/PartnerGrid/grids/Localize.aspx?partnerid=90&profileid=347

[chpalmer]

So as of this point, without modifying the antenna. I do need to change the angle I have it from Pointing the direction of to being horizontal and facing perpendicular to the direction the array of antennas are.

I missed this question last time...

Most TV broadcast antenna systems have higher ERP associated with the horizontal plane according to design of their antenna and the FCC license. Whether you can receive horizontal better depends on the path from their antenna to yours.  Its all experimental.

If you can pick up signals your way ahead of us here. We get a couple of stations but the multipath we get here really messes things up.

[Buggyman]

 :bigsmile: I had almost forgotten this Subject Mr Palmer.

The First link you gave me what I'm picking up. The second wouldn't recognize my zip code. 
The first one did provide some additional info I was aware of before. Like the aspect ratio. That was interesting. 
If you want to see what I could get, type in 32221 zip code.
I'm sure you know we are in flat land. In fact, If I can get around my neighbor big roof house, I'd have a clear shot toward downtown at about a 20 degree angle

My modified antenna I think I told you was nothing more than a magnet base CB antenna. Using a broadband cable spliced into it separating the center wire from the ground wire. The rod is spring loaded, 36 inch long with a cap tip on it.
Right now the antenna is mounted on my wall at a horizontal plane facing north/northwest. That angle gives me the most optional number of channels (some 30) without any pixelation of the picture.

So I should be happy right 
Wrong.
I'm not picking up channel 25 block. Which is ABC no matter how I position the antenna. 
And that station is right across the river from the station using the 4 blocks. Weird ain't it 

However, If I hook up one of those Digital Converter boxes using the same antenna. I get them as well. I thought about hooking that box to my HDTV to see what happens. 

I may end up as I said before just buying a correctly made antenna, but it's fun and challenging seeing what home made can do.  :bigsmile:

By the way, the reason we have so many channels is because there was an all out buy out of stations.
For example, CBS use to be on Channel 4. Channel 4 decided to go independent. So CBS became 47 and partnered with FOX 30 in the same building.  :muttley:
TV 17 ABC moved to a new location who was then bought out by ABC Brunswick Georgia who went bankrupted and was bought bu NBC. They are doing the same thing as CBS/Fox.
Since we went digital, they all have split their frequency into extra channels. So 4 became 30 plus, not counting the religious channels.  :bigsmile:

Enough to make your head spin heh?

Buggy